I don't mean to single you out, Terrie. Virtually every commenter here has expressed some version of the same response. But I totally disagree with you and them.
While I understand the hunger we all feel to see Democrats to fight the Trump administration on every front, this is the wrong hill to plant our flag on. There's a reason why in the past only Republicans have refused to raise the debt ceiling. They don't care how much damage would be caused, how much suffering would result from the United States failing to meet its obligations. We do, and we can't allow it to happen. This is a trap we should not fall into.
The debt ceiling does not authorize any future spending; it only allows payment of previously authorized expenditures. If not raised, the credit-worthiness of the United States gets down-graded, interest rates rise, and at some point the Treasury would have to start deciding which bills to pay. As (former) Treasury Secretary Yellen has said, the U.S. Treasury running out of cash would put “[e]very Social Security beneficiary, every family receiving a Child Tax Credit, every military family waiting for a paycheck or small business owners receiving a federal loan … at risk.”
A recession would be likely, with millions of jobs lost. The consequences are truly dire. I fail to see how this benefits Democrats, particularly when they would be the ones responsible for it.
We are heading for worse that a recession. Felon 47 on wants to raise or remove the debt ceiling to give another massive tax break to the billionaires . They already have to much power and don’t pay near the percentage of income untaxed as ordinary citizens. It’s time the people elected work for the people not the billionaires and corporations. We have a felon in the White House who is doing everything possible to destroy this country. So I say again no to raising the debt ceiling.
I agree with everything you've said. How do democrats make sure the welfare for the wealthy doesn't go through if the debt ceiling is raised? The wealthy welfare recipients need to pay their fair share of taxes. They hoard the wealth and who makes them wealthy...we do!
I can only repeat the point I've already made. Raising the debt ceiling itself does not authorize a tax break for billionaires, it only allows the government to pay for what has already been authorized. If the debt ceiling is not raised, it's ordinary workers and families who'll suffer. The wealthy always thrive, no matter what.
In the GOP only the most far-right Freedom Caucus members are refusing to raise the limit, just like they did in 2023 when we opposed them with all we had. Why would we now join them?
What Leader Jeffries is saying is that Democrats will agree to a debt ceiling increase only if it does not include any attached tax reductions, not that it should never be raised.
You are absolutely right about the gross unfairness of our current tax structure. But the place to have that battle is in the legislative process: House and Senate. Our Representatives must fight to defeat any attempt to extend or increase the tax breaks now enjoyed by those Thom Hartmann calls the morbidly rich.
I don't know what it's going to take to impeach this guy. He's already totally ignoring his obligation to work with the other 2 chambers before taking the actions he is taking. He's misusing the military for his own wants. How much damage should he be allowed to do before he's unseated?
The legislature must represent the will and power of the people. There will always be negotiations. There must be a demand from both sides to reach a workable solution, but A BLANK CHECK FROM THE DEMOCRATS is not one of them.
They must look out for Democrat constituents as well. It will become obvious to the people in the long run that the issue is : everyone must pay their fair share of taxes and the Republicans do not want to do this.
We are all going to suffer under the MAGA mandates anyway. All I ask that the Democrats negotiate in good faith and start booking themselves in every available media before they get stopped by
Fox, OAN, Sinclair Broadcasting, blogs and conservative shows with their usual vomit of lies.
This is playing chess and all of us are pawns. The way I see it, we ruin trump and the rest of us, but he loses favor. if we cave we will be ruined, also, but, only the people lose.
There's nothing I can add to what you have said, Jerry. I agree 100%. I remember very well what Nancy Pelosi used to go through when she had to work like a crazy woman getting the republican votes to go along with raising the debt limit and the hell-to-pay for the American people if the country was to default. It's a "cliff" this country never wants to go over, no matter who is in office. I'm hoping Hakeem is not in favor of this dangerous idea. He should know better.
I wholeheartedly disagree. Since the time has already come where America is FAFO LET’S AT LEAST THROW SOME BOULDERS IN THEIR WAY. WE’RE ALL GOING DOWN WITH THIS SHIP. IF WE DON’T DO SOMETHING DRASTIC. THEY ARE DEMOTING ALL WOMEN OF ANY POWER IN THE MILITARY. THE HOUSE IS ON FIRE AND YOU’RE STILL TALKING LIKE THINGS ARE NORMAL. THINGS ARE NOT NORMAL AND WE BETTER DO SOMETHING BEFORE WE LOSE AN ABILITY OR POWER TO DO ANYTHING. People and families are suffering now and they are going to suffer regardless of what the Democrats do project 2025 is full steam ahead. Stiff in your spine.
Jerry Weiss, are you saying that the Thugs and Trump should be allowed to just skate away while Democrats be, again, the adults?
Jerry, do you work and if you do, what do you do not by any chance in finance are you?
What I do for work is dry Social Security $939 per month. It’s not very much and those fuckers are trying to take it away from me and anyone else who drives it.
Trump and Musk and the billionaires are not honey badgers; but, they sure as hell don’t care. Whatever it takes to stop this runaway train that says the only responsible people in this country need to be middle class and downwards on the wealth scale just needs to stop.
Yeah, the wealthy will be somewhat sheltered from the worst day-to-day problems of a recession/depression.(by the way, whatever happened to that word, “depression?” Perhaps high time we had another one.
What are Tesla goes down the tubes or SpaceX? What if Facebook has the bottom drop out from underZuck? What if Trump, Vance, Bannon and Peter Thiel had the foundations of their capital die?
Perhaps we should experiment and see. I was already heavily criticized by someone who thinks I’m unfair to Warren Buffett and Bill Gates and Mark Cuban.
My personal thought is if we want there to be heroes, we need to stop having billionaires they have no need for that kind of money. Consequently, they go in politics and try to make more money that way. Inherently they are criminals, all of them.
I don’t know that we need the use of guillotines; however, I think denaturing their wealth is absolutely required! Give some chances to people with nothing to have something. Let the poor inherit the Earth how can it be worse than what we already have?
I hear you loud and clear, Radha. And you are completely right that this runaway train must be stopped. All I'm saying is that jumping on the tracks in front of it won't work.
No, the Thugs and Trump must not be allowed to skate. They need to be defeated where it matters -- in the Congress, where tax laws are written.
The wealth of the individuals you mention is almost unfathomable. You ask what happens if Tesla goes down the tubes, or if the bottom drops out of Facebook (Meta). Well, the total revenue of Tesla is $85 billion -- Musk's net worth is $420 billion. The total revenue of Meta is less than $50 billion -- Zuck's net worth is $217 billion. Short answer is they'd still be among the wealthiest men on earth.
Inviting an economic crisis in order to rid the world of billionaires is like declaring a revolution, and then firing the first shot into your own head. It wouldn't affect them at all. The only way we can fight back is through the institutions of our democratic republic, by raising our voices loudly and persistently to our representatives who actually have the power to make a difference.
BTW, to answer your other question: I'm a retired woodworker, do not own a house, drive a 14 year-old car, and live on social security benefits while drawing down a small nest egg accumulated slowly over 50 years. That's why I'm so adamant about not letting desperation overwhelm our rationality.
Believe me, if you are living on $939/month, You Do Not Want A Depression !
You’re awfully lucid for 1:56 AM, Jerry. I don’t know where you are, but I’m afraid I was asleep.
I don’t believe anyone should run in front of the train. I don’t believe anyone should put out a pull out a pistol and shoot themselves in the head however, I’m thinking that one thing that’s definitely gonna stop a runaway train is five or six sticks of TNT with a short fuse on the track.
Of course, now that the United States military has opened the giant faucet in the Pacific Northwest and the Canadian Rockies there should be enough water to put out any fire the TNT might cause.
Crazy Donnie and his nighttime rants may put an end to his craziness more quickly than we imagined as the 26th amendment can at this point should probably be used to put the country out of his misery.
Of course, then JD shows up as vice president. But I’m thinking Musk has in mind taking over himself.
The longer this dance goes on the more I’m reminded of the joker and his goofball Henchpeople.
I absolutely agree that Democrats should not vote to raise the debt ceiling and allow Trump his tax cuts that are going to further screw over regular Americans. Despite the fact that some of those same MAGA Americans probably deserve the financial devastation they voted for by voting for the big orange turd. Having said that, I sincerely hope that Democrats hold fast as opposed to their usual rollover with yellow belly exposed and give full concessions to Republican bullying. Fingers crossed.
It’s time to fight dirty if that’s what it takes to reign in Trump’s insanity. The last thing I need as a retiree is higher prices, but I’ve been assuming that things will be pretty challenging with Trump unfettered in his second term.
Amen, the only way that the Dems should agree to voting to adjust the debt ceiling is if the GOP agrees to return to pre-Reagon taxes for the wealthiest Americans, close all the special tax rates for income from capital gains, interest, stock dividends, hedge fund income, real estate investment income, etc. Agree with the "Freedom Caucus" folks that spending should be more in alignment with income, but align it by raising taxes on the wealthy.
It is time to stand up for the rights of average Americans and stop these idiots. Stop them dead in their tracks. Do not give another inch. It is now their problem. Stand for something instead of giving them freedom to do whatever they want!
Unfortunately I don’t have Democrat senators to appeal to (I live in FL). BUT- I’ll write anyway. I’ll say if they can’t get a bipartisan solution ‘I may have to look elsewhere’ for representation when the midterms come up 🗽
I totally agree. Don’t raise the debt ceiling to enable Trump’s tax cuts for the rich. Demand spending on Democratic priorities: health care (Medicaid, Medicare, Obamacare), housing, relief for CA fires, infrastructure spending, etc
Democrats need to hold Republicans accountable and make them fix their own problems (if that’s possible). The only reason to them to rather debt limit is to help their cronies and then steal from Social Security and Medicare to pay for their tax cut. Hakeem Jeffries please JUST SAY NO!
I absolutely agree! Do not budge on the debt ceiling! We are already suffering from this administration so just keep it going and shut them down!!! Only agree if they raise taxes on the wealthy, not lower them!
Not raising the debt ceiling and defaulting is a bad thing. But we're already headed toward a lot of bad things, and I don't think that would make it much worse. Dems should stand up to dRumpf's scheme.
I agree. Refuse to raise the debt ceiling. Demand Congress go without pay until it’s resolved.
I don't mean to single you out, Terrie. Virtually every commenter here has expressed some version of the same response. But I totally disagree with you and them.
While I understand the hunger we all feel to see Democrats to fight the Trump administration on every front, this is the wrong hill to plant our flag on. There's a reason why in the past only Republicans have refused to raise the debt ceiling. They don't care how much damage would be caused, how much suffering would result from the United States failing to meet its obligations. We do, and we can't allow it to happen. This is a trap we should not fall into.
The debt ceiling does not authorize any future spending; it only allows payment of previously authorized expenditures. If not raised, the credit-worthiness of the United States gets down-graded, interest rates rise, and at some point the Treasury would have to start deciding which bills to pay. As (former) Treasury Secretary Yellen has said, the U.S. Treasury running out of cash would put “[e]very Social Security beneficiary, every family receiving a Child Tax Credit, every military family waiting for a paycheck or small business owners receiving a federal loan … at risk.”
A recession would be likely, with millions of jobs lost. The consequences are truly dire. I fail to see how this benefits Democrats, particularly when they would be the ones responsible for it.
.
We are heading for worse that a recession. Felon 47 on wants to raise or remove the debt ceiling to give another massive tax break to the billionaires . They already have to much power and don’t pay near the percentage of income untaxed as ordinary citizens. It’s time the people elected work for the people not the billionaires and corporations. We have a felon in the White House who is doing everything possible to destroy this country. So I say again no to raising the debt ceiling.
Do not help the Republicans . Let them stew in their greed!ljs
I agree with everything you've said. How do democrats make sure the welfare for the wealthy doesn't go through if the debt ceiling is raised? The wealthy welfare recipients need to pay their fair share of taxes. They hoard the wealth and who makes them wealthy...we do!
I can only repeat the point I've already made. Raising the debt ceiling itself does not authorize a tax break for billionaires, it only allows the government to pay for what has already been authorized. If the debt ceiling is not raised, it's ordinary workers and families who'll suffer. The wealthy always thrive, no matter what.
In the GOP only the most far-right Freedom Caucus members are refusing to raise the limit, just like they did in 2023 when we opposed them with all we had. Why would we now join them?
What Leader Jeffries is saying is that Democrats will agree to a debt ceiling increase only if it does not include any attached tax reductions, not that it should never be raised.
You are absolutely right about the gross unfairness of our current tax structure. But the place to have that battle is in the legislative process: House and Senate. Our Representatives must fight to defeat any attempt to extend or increase the tax breaks now enjoyed by those Thom Hartmann calls the morbidly rich.
.
I don't know what it's going to take to impeach this guy. He's already totally ignoring his obligation to work with the other 2 chambers before taking the actions he is taking. He's misusing the military for his own wants. How much damage should he be allowed to do before he's unseated?
He’s breaking the law and violating to constitution. Impeachment now!
The legislature must represent the will and power of the people. There will always be negotiations. There must be a demand from both sides to reach a workable solution, but A BLANK CHECK FROM THE DEMOCRATS is not one of them.
They must look out for Democrat constituents as well. It will become obvious to the people in the long run that the issue is : everyone must pay their fair share of taxes and the Republicans do not want to do this.
We are all going to suffer under the MAGA mandates anyway. All I ask that the Democrats negotiate in good faith and start booking themselves in every available media before they get stopped by
Fox, OAN, Sinclair Broadcasting, blogs and conservative shows with their usual vomit of lies.
This is playing chess and all of us are pawns. The way I see it, we ruin trump and the rest of us, but he loses favor. if we cave we will be ruined, also, but, only the people lose.
I mean we are losing our country!
There's nothing I can add to what you have said, Jerry. I agree 100%. I remember very well what Nancy Pelosi used to go through when she had to work like a crazy woman getting the republican votes to go along with raising the debt limit and the hell-to-pay for the American people if the country was to default. It's a "cliff" this country never wants to go over, no matter who is in office. I'm hoping Hakeem is not in favor of this dangerous idea. He should know better.
I wholeheartedly disagree. Since the time has already come where America is FAFO LET’S AT LEAST THROW SOME BOULDERS IN THEIR WAY. WE’RE ALL GOING DOWN WITH THIS SHIP. IF WE DON’T DO SOMETHING DRASTIC. THEY ARE DEMOTING ALL WOMEN OF ANY POWER IN THE MILITARY. THE HOUSE IS ON FIRE AND YOU’RE STILL TALKING LIKE THINGS ARE NORMAL. THINGS ARE NOT NORMAL AND WE BETTER DO SOMETHING BEFORE WE LOSE AN ABILITY OR POWER TO DO ANYTHING. People and families are suffering now and they are going to suffer regardless of what the Democrats do project 2025 is full steam ahead. Stiff in your spine.
Jerry Weiss, are you saying that the Thugs and Trump should be allowed to just skate away while Democrats be, again, the adults?
Jerry, do you work and if you do, what do you do not by any chance in finance are you?
What I do for work is dry Social Security $939 per month. It’s not very much and those fuckers are trying to take it away from me and anyone else who drives it.
Trump and Musk and the billionaires are not honey badgers; but, they sure as hell don’t care. Whatever it takes to stop this runaway train that says the only responsible people in this country need to be middle class and downwards on the wealth scale just needs to stop.
Yeah, the wealthy will be somewhat sheltered from the worst day-to-day problems of a recession/depression.(by the way, whatever happened to that word, “depression?” Perhaps high time we had another one.
What are Tesla goes down the tubes or SpaceX? What if Facebook has the bottom drop out from underZuck? What if Trump, Vance, Bannon and Peter Thiel had the foundations of their capital die?
Perhaps we should experiment and see. I was already heavily criticized by someone who thinks I’m unfair to Warren Buffett and Bill Gates and Mark Cuban.
My personal thought is if we want there to be heroes, we need to stop having billionaires they have no need for that kind of money. Consequently, they go in politics and try to make more money that way. Inherently they are criminals, all of them.
I don’t know that we need the use of guillotines; however, I think denaturing their wealth is absolutely required! Give some chances to people with nothing to have something. Let the poor inherit the Earth how can it be worse than what we already have?
I hear you loud and clear, Radha. And you are completely right that this runaway train must be stopped. All I'm saying is that jumping on the tracks in front of it won't work.
No, the Thugs and Trump must not be allowed to skate. They need to be defeated where it matters -- in the Congress, where tax laws are written.
The wealth of the individuals you mention is almost unfathomable. You ask what happens if Tesla goes down the tubes, or if the bottom drops out of Facebook (Meta). Well, the total revenue of Tesla is $85 billion -- Musk's net worth is $420 billion. The total revenue of Meta is less than $50 billion -- Zuck's net worth is $217 billion. Short answer is they'd still be among the wealthiest men on earth.
Inviting an economic crisis in order to rid the world of billionaires is like declaring a revolution, and then firing the first shot into your own head. It wouldn't affect them at all. The only way we can fight back is through the institutions of our democratic republic, by raising our voices loudly and persistently to our representatives who actually have the power to make a difference.
BTW, to answer your other question: I'm a retired woodworker, do not own a house, drive a 14 year-old car, and live on social security benefits while drawing down a small nest egg accumulated slowly over 50 years. That's why I'm so adamant about not letting desperation overwhelm our rationality.
Believe me, if you are living on $939/month, You Do Not Want A Depression !
You’re awfully lucid for 1:56 AM, Jerry. I don’t know where you are, but I’m afraid I was asleep.
I don’t believe anyone should run in front of the train. I don’t believe anyone should put out a pull out a pistol and shoot themselves in the head however, I’m thinking that one thing that’s definitely gonna stop a runaway train is five or six sticks of TNT with a short fuse on the track.
Of course, now that the United States military has opened the giant faucet in the Pacific Northwest and the Canadian Rockies there should be enough water to put out any fire the TNT might cause.
Crazy Donnie and his nighttime rants may put an end to his craziness more quickly than we imagined as the 26th amendment can at this point should probably be used to put the country out of his misery.
Of course, then JD shows up as vice president. But I’m thinking Musk has in mind taking over himself.
The longer this dance goes on the more I’m reminded of the joker and his goofball Henchpeople.
I don’t think democrats should do anything to help this republican administration. They are trying to tear down our democracy
I agree, don’t do a single thing to help Trump and his fascist Republicans! He’s trying to blow up our Democracy! He’s a MONSTER!
I absolutely agree that Democrats should not vote to raise the debt ceiling and allow Trump his tax cuts that are going to further screw over regular Americans. Despite the fact that some of those same MAGA Americans probably deserve the financial devastation they voted for by voting for the big orange turd. Having said that, I sincerely hope that Democrats hold fast as opposed to their usual rollover with yellow belly exposed and give full concessions to Republican bullying. Fingers crossed.
Not with the debt ceiling they won't roll over. They've done it before blue all the way get rid of maggot trash
It’s time to fight dirty if that’s what it takes to reign in Trump’s insanity. The last thing I need as a retiree is higher prices, but I’ve been assuming that things will be pretty challenging with Trump unfettered in his second term.
Vote against everything the GOP wants. Absofreakinglutely everything!
Do It. Wall Street will howl, but do it anyway. This is political war.
I don’t believe the Democrats have the guts. I hope they prove me wrong.
Amen, the only way that the Dems should agree to voting to adjust the debt ceiling is if the GOP agrees to return to pre-Reagon taxes for the wealthiest Americans, close all the special tax rates for income from capital gains, interest, stock dividends, hedge fund income, real estate investment income, etc. Agree with the "Freedom Caucus" folks that spending should be more in alignment with income, but align it by raising taxes on the wealthy.
You nailed it
It is time to stand up for the rights of average Americans and stop these idiots. Stop them dead in their tracks. Do not give another inch. It is now their problem. Stand for something instead of giving them freedom to do whatever they want!
No joining with the Republicans!! Make history Hakeem!be the one who will hold the line. It’s now or never, please don’t fail us
He had better hold the line fast!
Time to fight as dirty as they do. Democrats look like a bunch of babies. Whatever it takes to stop the monster. He is already killing this countr
Refuse to help
In fact, I think we need to all call our dem senators and house people and tell them not to help.
Your suggestion to write is excellent.
Unfortunately I don’t have Democrat senators to appeal to (I live in FL). BUT- I’ll write anyway. I’ll say if they can’t get a bipartisan solution ‘I may have to look elsewhere’ for representation when the midterms come up 🗽
I totally agree. Don’t raise the debt ceiling to enable Trump’s tax cuts for the rich. Demand spending on Democratic priorities: health care (Medicaid, Medicare, Obamacare), housing, relief for CA fires, infrastructure spending, etc
Refuse to help the MAGA Republicans in any way!
Democrats need to hold Republicans accountable and make them fix their own problems (if that’s possible). The only reason to them to rather debt limit is to help their cronies and then steal from Social Security and Medicare to pay for their tax cut. Hakeem Jeffries please JUST SAY NO!
Make the traitors own their treason.
I absolutely agree! Do not budge on the debt ceiling! We are already suffering from this administration so just keep it going and shut them down!!! Only agree if they raise taxes on the wealthy, not lower them!
Not raising the debt ceiling and defaulting is a bad thing. But we're already headed toward a lot of bad things, and I don't think that would make it much worse. Dems should stand up to dRumpf's scheme.
Yes that's my question how does that affect those of us who need Medicare Medicaid etc.?
They will say they have to cut programs to pay for the millionaires/corporations tax cuts. Same as they did 8 years ago.
Right but if the Democrats allow them to do that in some kind of protest what's going to happen to those of us who rely on them. F us?
Right on!
It will be a circus, states will have to handle the distruction. Thats what
Trump wants distruction of existing order